Telefriuli
- Good morning and welcome! Two guest I have with me this morning, Eugenia
Natsoulidou who is an activist for the rights of Macedonians in Greece and
chair of the Macedonian Educational and Cultural movement – Good morning – and by
her side is William Cisilino, well know Director of the ARLEF who today is accompanying
Eugenia to talk about linguistic minorities. Tell us a little about your story,
Eugenia, you were born in Greece but you are member of a Macedonian family but
in your family this language has never been spoken or it was not allowed to be
spoken. Explain to us a little about this.
E- Yes,
it is true. I was born in the 50s, precisely
in 1955, it was a very much difficult period in Greece, after the Civil war by which many Macedonians had to
abandon the country. Those who remained had a terrible treatment. I, as a little
girl, although having at home my grandparents who did not speak Greek language –
I had to learn a little (the Macedonian language) because of this – but we were
not allowed to speak the language in public and especially at school,
where it was really forbidden… some children were also beaten up if they
pronounced some Macedonian words…
Telefriuli
- In other words, it was not appreciated the fact for someone to express
himself in the mother tongue. Now, why this guest today. It is because there is
a meeting to which she will participate tonight, under the fourteenth edition of
the Festival Vicino/Lontano (Near/Far) that opened yesterday in Udine and a meting
will be held in which will be discussed this situation. Naturally, the
discussion will be expanded, because we are in Europe and, as we said before
behind the scenes, in a Europe that should guarantee everyone the freedom to
express themselves also in minority languages, but as we see it is not so and
in the very much European Greece even today the situation is however
complicated, is that right?
E - Yes,
probably also for other linguistic minorities, not just the ethnic ones, being
ours also a national minority, Europe has been a huge disappointment because in
fact we had great expectations with Greece entering the European Union, that it
would be more democratic and more liberal – open- on these issues. Instead, it has
changed absolutely nothing…. Nothing, really…
zero!
Telefriuli
- You, William Cisilino, have followed very closely the situation in Catalonia,
how can we explain to ourselves this difficulty, it is not the only language
minority at European level that finds difficulties.
W- Exactly!
We can say that until about the year 2000, exception being Greece that has
always been contrary to the question of minorities -historically – and also at European
level, we can say that until 2000, Europe, in any case, had made some
activities to promote, in the various national states, protection policies, and not just that… It
required the states which wanted to join the European Union to undersign some
treaties for the protection of minorities. Paradox, treaties that France, Italy
and Greece, up today, have not undersigned, so it is a paradox, that is, for you
to enter the European Union you must sign the European Charter for the languages
but France, Italy and Greece have never signed. This is a paradox that says already
lots of things.
Telefriuli
- Especially Italy, I mean… but, then, it protects some minority languages
there are also officially recognized beyond the Friulan…
W - Yes,
it protects or pretends of protecting them… here we could open a long debate.
Let’s say that until 2000, however, the European Union did something, directly from
Brussels. But when new memberships began to appear in the adhesion of the Eastern
European states, let’s say that one of the conditions these states asked,
formally or informally, fronting the undersigning of these treaties, was that
the European Union would no longer take care of the protection of minorities,
so that since 2000 Europe does not do anything, any more. And we also have recently
seen how, as you mentioned, in the Catalan case Europe has been completely
absent. Then, one wonders how we can have as a motto Union, united in diversity
and then doing nothing to protect these diversities when they are put in danger
like the Macedonian case which is perhaps, or of Greece in general, the most striking
case in Europe.
Telefriuli-
You have also received some threats from social media. We know unfortunately
that via social media human beings let come out the worse things, but I mean
that this is a situation that you are living on your skin.
E - Well,
indeed, I was courageous enough to make an association that was not precisely
an association but a non profit company which absolutely could not be closed. It
was a company, someone makes a company of 3-4 people, how can you close such
thing… The associations can be closed by order of a Prosecutor. In the beginning
we did not put the name “Macedonian” in the title, but then I thought if it is
a company they couldn’t… I mean I have a product and I want to call it in a certain
way, there is no law to prohibit it.
Telefriuli
- And this did not get appreciation…
E - No,
absolutely, it did not get any appreciation… In fact, I changed the name or I
just added Macedonian to our title just in 2016 and in 2017 we had to close
this company
Telefriuli
- It is true, there are difficult realities. William, but Europe how come it is
afraid of these minorities because if the closing attitude is this, the coming
thoughts are that…indeed is not a closing attitude it is a little of opposing the
possibility not only to express oneself obviously in his own language but also
at a cultural level… but how can these minorities scare… clear I that they are,
after all, a powder keg because if they cannot express themselves or anything
else, it happens as it happened in Spain that sooner or later everything
becomes a political movement and it bursts out.
W - It
scares because more or less all the European states but I would say all the
states in the world within them have more than one languages and the states as
w know them today were born as nation-states where there is only one language, exception
being very rare cases like Switzerland or Belgium for historical reasons,
however this nineteenth -century idea is till an axes carrier of the states,
therefor is an Europe of states that are believed nation state and when they
hear talking about other languages, other cultures, then at the proof of the
facts – in line with principle is everything very nice- but at the proof of
facts they are against. We are seeing now the Catalan case which is striking… Puigdemont
arrested in Germany, Germany most probably will not extradite him to Spain
because it came out , finally, and it was about time, because at the beginning was
said that Belgium was sympathizing, and it came out that he did not commit any
crime because he did not do violent acts of rebellion and there has not been even
an embezzlement of state funds because the referendum was done only by private
funding, so that today with the Catalans, thanks to Catalans, we are putting
our finger in the wound of what is today Europe where things happen like these we
just heard occurring in Greece, violence occurring as we saw, at the end of
last year, in Catalonia and everybody saying this is not our business, they are
internal affairs…
Telefriuli
- But this is a contradiction… and I say this about the romantic idea of a
Europe of integration and acceptance and of course also the minority languages,
the minority communities that are, after all, born from history, also in the
case of Macedonia in which is the history that speaks for which you arrived to
today’s situation
Telefriuli
- We have talked and analyzed a little the situation in Europe, however, this problem
goes beyond the borders of Europe because you quoted me also the case of Quebec,
right? For which you will talk tonight, as well. You can give us some anticipations
of the points
W - Yes!
Tonight we will also have the professor Salvatore who is a professor of the
University of Montreal in Quebec who will talk to us about the particular
situation of the Quebec for those who do
not know, it is a state that makes up Canada being in majority francophone. And
perhaps is a reality in the world where a region-state has implementented protection
policies very much effective to preserve ones’ own identity and language. We
can say that even here there is a paradox where the French in Canada is a minority
language in the sphere of the Canadian state asking always for more forms of protection,
however, France one of the states that
notoriously opposes more the minority
languages. We will enter also in these paradoxes together with another guest who
is the journalist Carlo Pupo of Radio Onde Friulane and who knows all the critical
situations in Europe concerning the minorities, so we are going to go also to
Corsica, to Scotland.
Telefriuli
- Let’s say that the world is made of minorities that, after all, if they had
all their rights guaranteed, freedom of expression would not degenerate in movements
and revolts.
W - It
would be enough to apply mathematics here. In the world there are about 7000
languages, the recognized states in UN are 198, so if we just count a minute…
like it or not, the situation is this. It is true, there must be a language of general
communication in the state and in international level, nobody puts this in
doubt, but is also right to respect local identities, they can coexist peacefully,
like it happens with our friend Eugenia who speaks very good Italian, as you
heard, and the Greek, Macedonian, Italian and I do not know of how many other languages….
Telefriuli
- She misses the Friulan though… We will do for her an accelerated course…
W - Lets
say that the languages do not cancel out one another but more languages can live
together peacefully
Telefriuli
- Well, we grew up with the idea that knowing more languages opens the mind, it
does good. Yes, we cannot go backwards to such important issue. William, please remind
us about the appointment tonight, what time and where.
…….
…….
Telefriuli
- Thanks to Eugenia and William for having been with us today and wish you all
the best for the event.
(Translation into English from Italian)
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